Catholic Thomist Discussion: Diverging on TAG, ADS, Theophanies & Epistemology: AJ Barker / Jay Dyer
In a series of discussions with AJ Barker, Jay Dyer critically examines Thomist theology, focusing on topics such as divine simplicity, natural law, and epistemology. He challenges the Thomist view that separates the natural and the supernatural, arguing that a proper understanding of natural phenomena requires acknowledgment of divine revelation. Dyer further explores theological concepts like death, Christ's resurrection, and the nuances of contemporary epistemology, highlighting the differences between Eastern Orthodox and Thomistic positions. He also critiques how Thomism interprets God's essence and actions, particularly in relation to the incarnation and the understanding of the Eucharist. Throughout these dialogues, Dyer emphasizes the importance of integrating divine grace into a comprehensive understanding of theology and existence.
Chain 6 steps
- AJ Barker: The transcendental argument has to be a starting point for discourse“the justification for your whole system”
- Jay Dyer: The created order was jarred due to Adam's fall, which affected everything in creation.“When Adam Fell All The Created Order Was Jarred As A Result”
- Jay Dyer: Thomism's view on divine simplicity conflicts with the reality of God's actions.“The philosophy and the natural theology that you do contradicts the supernatural theology that you tack on later is the point”
- AJ Barker: God has one simple act that includes multiple actions in time without conflicting with His essence.“It's like exactly identical with his essence”
via Thomism- Jay Dyer: Maximus the Confessor teaches that there is no essential distinction between natural and supernatural revelation.“does not posit an essential distinction between natural revelation and the supernatural or biblical one”
- Jay Dyer: Catholic teaching does not assert that the Eucharist involves eating the essence of God.“It's not the essence of God that you're eating...”
Subjects
27Jay argues that in Thomistic epistemology, God is not a first principle or starting point for knowledge.
Jay argues that while the doctrine of divine simplicity is affirmed in Orthodoxy, it should not be based on a Neoplatonic conception that excludes possibilities of divine actions in time and space.
Jay questions whether the act of incarnation fits within Thomistic definitions of God's nature as pure act and simple.
Jay critiques Thomism for failing to bridge the gap between the created and uncreated, asserting that this undermines the epistemological framework.
Jay Dyer discusses how Adam is made in the image of Christ, suggesting that this fundamentally shapes human nature and the understanding of the resurrection.
Jay Dyer argues that classical foundationalism sums up the essence of scholastic ideas, questioning its absence among Roman Catholic theologians.
Jay Dyer argues that the Council of Ephesus dogmatized the understanding of the Eucharist and clarified that what is consumed is not the divine essence but a created grace.
Jay Dyer contends that death is a violation of God's original order and not a natural part of human existence, emphasizing its unnaturalness for humanity.
Jay argues that the epistemological framework in Thomism cannot adequately address contemporary objections.
Jay Dyer asserts that Roman Catholics do not believe in eating the divine essence during the Eucharist.
Jay presents the view that theophanies, such as the angelic manifestations in scripture, are indeed genuine manifestations of God that can be identified as divine, which presents challenges to Thomistic interpretations.
Jay presents Thomas Aquinas' view that God, while being the ground of everything, is not an epistemic starting point in Thomism.