Oriental "Orthodoxy" Refuted Part 4 - Tertium Quid, Logos-Sarx: Orthodox Shahada & David Erhan
In the fourth part of his series on Orthodox theology, Jay Dyer, alongside guests David Erhan and Kai of Orthodox Shahada, discusses pivotal aspects of Christology, including the concepts of hypostasis, natures, and the Logos-Sarx model. The conversation highlights the necessity of differentiating between Christ's divine and human natures, critiquing the Oriental Orthodox approach to Christology that blurs these distinctions and leads to metaphysical confusion. They explore theological implications surrounding terms like "Christotokos," the nature-person distinction, and the misunderstandings stemming from monophysitism versus diophysitism debates. Additionally, the dialogue extends into geopolitical discussions related to Islam and the relevance of these theological principles in contemporary discussions. Throughout, Dyer emphasizes the importance of precise theological language to prevent misinterpretations in complex discussions.
Chain 6 steps
- David Erhan: Asymmetrical Christology discusses the union between divinity and humanity.“It's a relationship between the hypostasis, the person... united to an impersonal nature.”
- Jay Dyer: The use of hypostasis by the Orientals could lead to misunderstandings about Christ's nature.“Does that necessitate some type of subsuming or substantial change, which leads to the tertium quid?”
- Jay Dyer: Misunderstanding of nature and person causes theological confusion.“there's no way that it even makes sense to talk about guilt by nature or natural guilt...”
- David Erhan: Tertium quid refers to new emergent properties arising from Christ's two natures.“A key characteristic of tertium quid... is that it has new emergent properties.”
via Severus of Antioch- David Erhan: Stresses that the body and soul's distinction is different from divine nature distinctions due to their non-contradictory properties.“I don't think the body and the soul have contradictory properties.”
- Jay Dyer: The Oriental Orthodox community engages in deceitful tactics.“...all just Dawa tactics, exactly.”
Subjects
25Jay refers to Agin as someone who fails to understand basic metaphysical terms in Christology and calls him out for allegedly engaging in dishonest debate tactics.
Jay encourages followers to check out David Erhan's channel, which keeps changing its name, humorously comparing it to a luxury brand.
Jay discusses Severus' Christological views as being aligned with a separate metaphysical paradigm from the Orthodox understanding.
Jay discusses the implications of the relationship between divine hypostasis and human nature in Christology, particularly in the context of Oriental views that he critiques.
Jay critiques Oriental Orthodoxy for its Christological distinctions that he believes undermine its coherence.
Jay claims that the Oriental perspective is essentially Apollinarianism because it treats both nature and hypostasis as metaphysical particulars, which he critiques as undermining the consubstantiality of Christ.
Jay argues that Apollinaris is the originator of the Logosarx Christology, which leads to confusion in understanding the nature-person distinction.
Jay contrasts Bishoi's perspective on Christ's nature with the Orthodox understanding, particularly around the idea of sum of natural properties.
Jay emphasizes that understanding the unique nature of Christ is essential and distinguishes it from both divine and human aspects.
Jay uses Eunomius as an example of a theologian who incorrectly views conceptual distinctions as merely mental constructs.
Jay refers to discussions questioning the motivations behind Soros's actions related to Muslim immigration into Europe.
Jay references Ian Torrance's 'Christology After Chalcedon' to provide context for the discussion on Severus' theological positions.